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tv   The Week With Joshua Johnson  MSNBC  January 16, 2021 6:00pm-7:00pm PST

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are you feeling a little edgy tonight? if so, you're definitely not alone. four days before joe biden's inauguration, security is very high at the u.s. capitol and at multiple state capitols across the nation. they are preparing for the possibility of more violence. from nbc news in washington, i'm joshua johnson. welcome to "the week." ♪♪ consider this. right now there are more american troops here in washington than there are in iraq and afghanistan combined. tens of thousands of national guardsmen are assisting the secret service with preinauguration security. the capitol is surrounded by
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nine-foot fencing and barbed wire. meanwhile we're continuing to learn more about a breaking story tonight. yesterday a virginia man was arrested near a security checkpoint near the capitol with an inauguration pass being described as unauthorized. also an unregistered gun and more than 500 rounds of ammunition. we'll have more on that in just a moment. this week donald trump became the first president to be impeached twice. some of his congressional allies may well play a role in defending him during his next senate trial. the details are still in the works, but his team could include ohio congressman jim jordan and florida congressman matt gaetz. we'll explore the constitutional issues at question in his upcoming trial. and we'll answer some of your questions as well. let's begin with the latest on that man arrested near the capitol. nbc's vaughn hillyard is here in washington with more on that. vaughn, tell us what we know right now. >> reporter: joshua, this was a young man who was stopped at a
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security checkpoint, at which we're told he showed a noncredentialed government i.d. of course it was not an inauguration-authorized pass to get through. law enforcement ultimately arrested and charged the man because he was in possession of an unlicensed firearm with 500 rounds of ammunition. that gentleman has since been released and has told authorities that he was working in private security here. but i think what this incident speaks to is the security apparatus that has been built up around the capitol. it was just ten days ago that an insurrection took place in which there were fatal flaws made by law enforcement in the protection of not only the u.s. capitol infrastructure but also the lives that were at risk and ultimately, multiple individuals died at the scene of the u.s. capitol. now, fast forward, we're only four days away now from
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inauguration day. the biden team still says that the president-elect intends to take the oath of office outside, on the west front of the u.s. capitol. we should note the national mall grounds will be closed and a perimeter has been set up here around the greater d.c. area. this is as far as the general public can get to the u.s. capitol right here. but what you see is more than 9,500 national guardsmen already on site. the department of defense says that number could reach 25,000 by this wednesday. you have local law enforcement agencies working with federal agencies. you have barriers that have been set up. if one were to take a walk down washington streets here during the day, it is essentially a ghost town. and that is why that arrest of that individual is notable, because it was u.s. capitol police sending the signal that an individual, we still do not know the extent to which this individual posed a threat, but
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at this time it is seeming to suggest that it was just an individual with an unlicensed firearm and ammunition. but those in that sort of situation should be wary about coming into washington, d.c. right now. >> it is very quiet in the streets around here. the most traffic that i saw on the streets nearby was just locals on their bicycles coming to take pictures of the cordons and then move on. thank you, vaughn. that's nbc's vaughn hillyard starting us off here in washington. "the washington post" is reporting that three days before the capitol riot, the u.s. capitol police had intelligence warning of a violent scenario. the intel said that congress could be the target of angry mobs of trump supporters. let's continue now with carol leonic, investigative reporter for "the washington post," author of "a very stable genius" and an msnbc contributor. carol, it's good to see you. i think the obvious question that everybody seems to be asking right now, actually two
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obvious questions, one, were the capitol police just flat out incompetent in this, and two, does this support the idea that someone on the inside helped the rioters on the outside get in. could you take on those two questions first? >> i think, joshua, chief sund, the former capitol police chief who was on watch the day this unfolded in such a tragic way, a woman shot, a police officer killed, dozens of police officers injured, one who had a mild heart attack trying to fend everyone off, i think that chief would tell you if he were with you tonight, it was an absolute colossal failure. now, he would also say, and many other of my sources say this too, that they tried to do something a little different, they were worried about the size of the protests this day. the three protests that were
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pro-trump maga rallies, essentially, over the last few weeks, this was the one that was supposed to be the biggest. and the capitol police decided that they would bring in emergency national guard or at least the chief thought that's what he would do. but his bosses, who are political operatives, sergeants at arms who answer to the leadership of the house and the senate, weren't comfortable with this idea of putting the national guard on emergency standby. and that proved to be a fatal flaw, a fatal failure, because if those national guard had been on deck on wednesday as the chief requested, this could have played out very differently. they could have held this group at bay until potentially reinforcements arrived. but that didn't happen. >> i want to make sure i heard you correctly, carol, in what you said. it sounds like what you said was that the chief of the capitol police, a sworn law enforcement officer, saw the need for a
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larger protective presence at the capitol. he ran that up the chain to the sergeant at arms who is a political appointee of the congressional leadership, and that's where the idea fell apart? so someone in law enforcement saw the need, and a politico above him said no. did i hear you right? >> you absolutely did. there is another thing about your question, joshua, though, which is that failure, this capitol police intel unit, so it's really the police's own, you know, intelligence gathering experts, they warned of the perfect storm that actually happened. they warned exactly, and they predicted exactly three days before it unfolded. they said these were the key elements of that perfect storm. one, that people who are pro-trump were viewing january 6 and that event as a desperate last effort, a last ditch chance
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to change the results of the election when lawmakers gathered to certify. two, they were egged on by one of the most important and high profile supporters you can imagine, president trump himself. third, this group had been talking online about preparing for an armed combat. their organizers were telling each other to bring weapons that they could reassemble on the scene and this intel unit found they were also talking about bringing reinforced bulletproof vests that are used to fend off rifle rounds, they were told to bring gas masks. that's a group armed for war. fourth and finally, joshua, sorry it's a long list, the other part of the perfect storm is that this group was targeting something different than they ever had before. in the past there could be skirmishes between pro-trump and anti-trump groups, so-called counterprotesters.
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but this was the first time they had intelligence, the capitol police, that the target was congress. no matter whether they were gop lawmakers in there or not. >> definitely a report worth reading. i have a feeling we'll need some more help making sense of the timeline of this as more facts come out. carol leonnig of "the washington post," thank you. elizabeth asks, does conviction automatically result in not being able to run for office or is that a separate vote? and does impeachment conviction have any impact on civil or criminal charges after he leaves office? good questions. to help us answer those and more, we're joined by jeffrey rosen, the president and ceo of the national constitution center and a professor at the george washington university school of law. professor rosen, good evening, good to see you. >> great to see you too. >> let's start with those
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questions. how would you respond to elizabeth? >> great questions from elizabeth. on the first, yes, there do have to be two separate votes. first, the senate would have to vote by a two-thirds majority to convict president trump. and then it would vote separately, and you only need a majority for this, about whether to disqualify him from holding any position of trust or honor in the united states. the second question, does the impeachment affect civil or criminal liability, not formally. remember, the president cannot pardon himself from an impeachment trial. the self-pardon might not work for a federal charge, the justice department has said it wouldn't be valid. but he could try to raise that defense in a federal trial but not in an impeachment trial. >> one of our viewers wants to know, if trump is impeached in the senate and forbidden from
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running for president again, could i still run for governor of a state? >> great question. and the answer is yes, that the constitution says "honor, trust, or profit in the united states." it doesn't bar him from holding state office. >> another question, will trump be able to receive intelligence briefings after leaving office as other former presidents are? is impeachment the only way to stop that? >> he is eligible. impeachment would stop it because he would lose all perks of office including his travel allowance and salary. i don't know whether president biden has the discretion to stop the former president from receiving briefings. >> one argument against impeachment is that the trial is essentially moot once he leaves office. what's your sense of whether the
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former president can be tried under the impeachment process? >> this is an important question because senator cotton signaled this may be the big defense of the gop senators who don't want to vote to convict. they're going to sayi don't have to take a position because the senate doesn't have jurisdiction. they say the penalty is removal from office, and the theory is if you can't remove, you can't disqualify. the argument against that is that it would be silly to imagine that one could escape impeachment by simply resigning. the bottom line is if the senate decides it does have jurisdiction, the supreme court is unlikely to intervene, so it's all up to the senators and it will be interesting to see how many of them use this jurisdictional defense to avoid having to take a position on whether or not president trump is guilty. >> a few more constitutional questions before i have to let you go.
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let's take a look at the text that has to do with the margin of victory for a conviction. it says, quote, no person shall be convicted without the concurrence of two-thirds of the members present. so if some senators choose to be absent, to stay home and avoid the vote, does that alter the amount of people that are needed for conviction? is it possible some senators could be like, count me out, i have nothing to say, and then the democrats could just go with the people who are in the room at the time? >> you know, that is a great question. some of it may have to do with senate rules about when the senate is allowed to hold a vote and they may require a certain quorum. but if you read the text as you just did, it seems to say the members present. so maybe you could try to avoid responsibility by not showing up. very interesting. >> one last question. one of our viewers brought up the 14th amendment of the constitution. and the third section of the 14th amendment basically says that if you were an elected
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officer under the constitution, federal officer, and you engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof, you're disqualified, you can't run again automatically. congress can override that with a two-thirds majority vote. before i have to let you go, does that make this whole process moot? i mean, could democrats in the house and senate have said, you know, the constitution disqualified you just because of what you did, so, you know, depart from me, we know ye not. or do we still have to go through this process? >> it is possible that indeed the house and senate could disqualify the president from holding future office under the section 3 of the 14th amendment. that does appear to only require a majority vote of both houses. that might be challenged in court and the supreme court might have questions about whether he actually did incite an insurrection. but bottom line, it's a very plausible alternative line of disqualification and there too,
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the supreme court might just choose not to intervene. >> jeffrey rosen, president and ceo of the national constitution center and a professor at the george washington university school of law, always good to talk to you, thank you very much. >> thanks for the great questions. still to come this hour, how could so many law enforcement agencies have been so unprepared for the riot at the capitol when, as carol leonnig tells us, they were aware of it? and pete sousa has been more vocal about his political views in recent years. we'll find out why in just a few minutes. richard lui is here with the headlines. the science adviser will be elevated to a cabinet position
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for the first time. president-elect biden nominated eric lander to that post. thousands of covid-19 vaccines have been thrown out. dr. ashish jha hold nbc news under government guidelines health care providers let vaccines go bad rather than give them to people not scheduled to take them. tonight's power ball jackpot is an estimated $640 million while the mega millions jackpot is up to $850 million. both are on the top ten list of all time largest kitties. and the odds, well, they're at the bottom ten list. more of "the week with joshua johnson" right after the break. season, after season. ace your immune support, with centrum.
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we are learning more about the security failures that preceded last week's storming of the capitol. we just heard carol leonnig of "the washington post" discuss the internal memo from capitol police, warning that pro-trump crowds could get violent.
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but it was not shared with the fbi or homeland security. a former homeland security said bias could explain why it was not shared with other agencies. our next guest refers to this as "the invisible bias," that is, all the things we fail to notice because of our bias. it might have been hard for authorities to realize that people who looked like them could commit such crimes. their belief was that, quote, foe look differently, foe act differently, they don't have the same bumper stickers, they don't have the same stickers as "don't tread on me." r.p. eddy is ceo of ergo, a global intelligence and advisory firm. mr. eddy, good evening. >> nice to see you, joshua.
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>> let's get into this idea of the invisible obvious. a number of capitol police officers have been suspended following the riot. one was seen apparently taking a selfie with members of the mob. another was seen wearing a maga hat, directing people inside the building. is this a form of the invisible obvious? or is that not quite the same -- >> no, those are not examples. those are examples of collusion or directly sedition or straight racism. that's not what i'm talking about. those are criminals, presumably acting criminally. >> gotcha. that's why i wanted to bring this up first. paint us the distinction between this and those actions. >> you're previous guests was making a good point about how a number of people did know this was going to [ inaudible ]. how did the ultimate decisionmakers get this wrong? we have a long string of
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intelligence failures in american history. we talk about a failure to imagine, failure to connect the dots. and you're referring to a phrase we use in the book, "invisible obvious." this one was so obvious, it was so in front of so many people's face. i do believe it was for many decisionmakers. you mentioned previously people who look like us and vote like us, we generally feel more comfortable with. it's a form of racial bias, a cognitive bias. that's a big thing that was at play here. two others was, a frame of law enforcement officers follow the law, doesn't the president also, who do i serve? the confusion of putting this hardened bunch of criminals, that's a hard one, and finally, it was probably an overcorrection to the june 1 lafayette square militarization.
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>> there's been reporting that a number of the people in the mob were current or law enforcement themselves. what do you make of that, particularly in terms of a sense of that shared affinity that may be part of these biases that allowed things to get missed? >> i've worked with law enforcement for years. i hold law enforcement in general in high esteem as many of us do. there are a million law enforcement officers in america. obviously there are very bad apples in that bucket. it's a fact. we must absolutely confront the fact that a number of the far right groups and more conspiracy driven groups like qanon or boogaloo bois or crazy things on the right have infill rated not only our law enforcement but our military. it's a real problem we need to address and understand. i'm not surprised at all that of the thousands of people who came to the capitol and of the hundreds perhaps, i'm not sure of the number now, that broke into the capitol, that laid siege to the capitol, some were
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police officers. again, they tend to be affiliated to the right and unfortunately there is an affiliation of these far right groups into law enforcement and the military. >> this concept of the invisible obvious, as we're going into 2021 and having some intense cultural and national conversations that i think a lot of people want to have but have them usefully, give me an example of a way, before i have to let you go, of how this concept might factor into the way we go forward with 2021 and face some of the issues that are before us. >> well, you know, we talk a lot about catastrophes that strike us, from 9/11 to isis, from madoff to katrina, people who give us warnings, from highly credentialed experts, i call them cassandras, the reason we didn't listen to them was largely around cognitive biases which lead us to make horrible decisions. one is racial bias, one is the
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concept of invisible obvious, we don't see it when it's right in front of us. we have to work hard against bias, accept it's there, and make sure you're listening to someone who is giving a warning. if you're initially repelled by them or want to throw away their point of view or warning, ask yourself why. the catastrophes i just gave you, if in every one of those instances, if the person who made the decision which was ultimately the wrong decision to not listen, and ask, why am i kicking that person out of the office, why am i not listening to that person who tells me the "challenger" would blow up, if we confronted our biases, we would do a whole lot better. >> cassandras, like the greek myth, who utters prophecies that are never believed? >> yes, the greek mythological
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figure who is cursed to be right but disbelieved when catastrophe strikes. >> i appreciate your time and the reference to greek mythology, love the cultural throwback, thank you for making time. >> great to see you, thank you. coming up, as we talk to another historical moment, we'll talk to someone who knows a lot about documenting them. former white house photographer pete sousa joins us, just ahead. stay close. they customize your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. wow. that will save me lots of money. this game's boring. only pay for what you need. liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. to support a strong immune system, your body needs routine. centrum helps your immune defenses every day, with vitamin c, d and zinc. season, after season. ace your immune support, with centrum.
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the fun times. but also showing what he was like as a dad, as a husband, just as a human being. to me, that shows how the job of the president should be done. >> that was the voice of pete sousa, president obama's chief white house photographer, reflecting on his job capturing history. photo journalists are there for the good moments and the bad moments. photographers took these pictures on the day of the insurrection at the capitol. images that will help us remember an unforgettable day. now for the first time journalists are documenting the landscape in washington leading up to joe biden's inauguration. most of the city is shut down. a nonscaleable fence surrounds the capitol complex. joining us now is pete sousa, former chief white house photographer for president obama. he was also an official photographer for president ronald reagan and he is the
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focus of the documentary "the way i see it." you can see it tonight at the top of the hour. pete, welcome. >> thanks for having me on, joshua, i really appreciate it. >> i want to start with a cut from the documentary about one of the pictures from the obama presidency that i think has failed to warm anyone's heart who has ever seen it. watch. >> this is jake of philadelphia. at one point jacob's mom said, mr. president, jacob has a question for you. jacob's kind of like, mr. president, my friends tell me that my haircut is just like yours. and with that, president obama bent over. jacob touched his head. click, i got one photo, and it was gone. that image was what barack obama said to us two years ago in an office in chicago. that kid literally can't even believe, even though that's seeing the president of the united states in the oval
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office, until he can feel his hair, he doesn't truly believe that he's just like me. that single image stands for so much more. it stands for how kids will see themselves differently forever. >> but two, i think it tells you something about barack obama, that at the behest of a 5-year-old kid, you would go ahead, bend over and let that kid touch your head like that. >> i love that picture, one that has never failed to warm people's hearts when they see it. how do you reflect on your time documenting the obama and reagan white houses, particularly in light of everything that's happened over the last four years? >> i think in one sense, both men respected the dignity of the office. they both showed compassion and empathy in their job and the way they interacted with other people. and i found that none of those existed in the current
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administration, with the current president. >> you wrote an op-ed that talks about the few words you exchanged with donald trump on the day he came to the white house after he won the election. what can you tell us about that? >> well, he was alone in the oval office with president obama and president obama, being the gentleman, introduced trump to me. and trump said something like, oh, you're famous. and i just thought that was such an odd thing for someone to say, like how would he even know who i was? because i was pretty low key at the time, when i was in the job. so i just thought that was such an odd response. >> in terms of being low key, you wrote an op-ed for us that said that you decided to begin throwing shade at trump and his
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administration in the early days after his inauguration, an op-ed for nbc think. what made you decide to be more vocal? was there a particular moment that kind of spurred you to be more forthright with your political feelings? >> i mean, i think the emotions had been boiling up since the election of 2016, right up until inauguration day. and i just felt that we had been conned by this guy. i mean, look, he started his political career with the birther issue, that's how he got so much attention in 2015, was claiming that barack obama wasn't born in the u.s. and every time that he said that, it was on cable tv. so i knew he was a con man. and i felt that because i didn't think he was competent and would be respectful and wasn't empathic or compassionate, i honestly felt i had no choice, that i had to find a way to
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speak out. and i thought that i could do it in a pretty unique way, using public domain images with my commentary on instagram. so i just felt that i really had no choice, that as a citizen -- >> i'm sorry, i didn't mean to interrupt you. before i let you go, i know you documented two presidents, it turns out the that you will have documented a third, the one who will be inaugurated on wednesday. what would you like the rest of the world to see about joe biden? >> joe biden is one of the most compassionate human beings i've ever met. he's had a lot of tragedy in his life and i think that affects the way he looks at everything. >> pete souza, former chief official white house photographer, pete, really good to have been through so many of your photos. anyone who goes through your pictures, it's hard to not really feel like you're in the
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room where it happened. thank you for your work documenting the country and thank you for making time for us tonight, we appreciate it. >> thanks for having me on. >> remember, catch "the way i see it" next on msnbc. take a behind the scenes look at presidents reagan and obama through pete's lens. the documentary is co-presented by focus features and msnbc films which is a division of nbc news studios. so far more than 12 million people have watched the documentary. your chance to watch it starts at 10:00 p.m. eastern. medical experts are warning of a spike on top of a spike due to a new more infectious strain of covid-19. that is next.
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public health officials here in the u.s. are identifying more cases of that highly contagious coronavirus variant. scientists around the world continue to look for new strains and determine if they are resistant to vaccines. nbc's keir simmons has more from london. >> reporter: warning of a pandemic within a pandemic, as a new, more infectious strain of coronavirus is reported in at least nine states. and around the world, fears that some mutations may even challenge vaccine efficacy. the uk variant, called b117, has exploded with even stores, restaurants, and schools closed,
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it's still spreading. scientists we spoke to worried the same could already be happening in the u.s. >> because the exponential growth of this virus, if you infect a whole lot more people, more people will die. >> reporter: the u.s. could be about to see a spike on top of a spike? >> that's right. >> reporter: nbc news was given an exclusive virtual tour of the world-leading genome sequencing lab that first identified the so-called uk variant. >> these machines behind me are the ones that detected the new strain. >> reporter: and raised the alarm. jeff barrett helps lead the team. >> the evidence is pretty strong now that it's about 50% more transmissible. >> reporter: tens of thousands of test samples are brought to the lab every day and meticulously put through several robotic processes, looking for the genetic changes to make the virus more dangerous. it's a needle in a haystack. >> you're like virus detectives. it's a forensic operation. >> it's very similar to a
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forensic operation, indeed. >> reporter: we need vaccinations, not just in individual countries but for the entire world. why? because where there is virus, there are mutations that can come back to threaten us all. >> that was nbc's keir simmons reporting from london. this year is off to an intense start. a little emotional shielding might help. but not too much. it's easy to pick up and painful to put down. i'll explain how i learned that this week, the hard way, before we go. so you only pay for what you need? really? i didn't-- aah! ok. i'm on vibrate. aaah! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪
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with vascepa. what should we do about what's going on around us? sometimes i think of that movie "network," but an anchor man who becomes a hit when he unleashes his insanity on the air. it is one of my favorite movies. "network"'s brilliant screenplay by paddy chayevsky won oscars,
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especially for lines like this. >> i want all of you to get up out of your chairs, get up right now and go to the window, open and stick your head out and yell, i'm as mad as hell, and i'm not going to take this anymore! >> classic. now, i have nothing against tv personalities who are emotional or intense, personally i'd rather be clear-eyed and level headed especially at times like this, but a few days ago, my cool calm collectedness failed me. i'm glad it did. and maybe you should let it fail you, too. here's what happened. on tuesday, cnn's sarah sidner choked up during a live report in los angeles. she was reporting on a woman who had just lost her mother and stepfather to covid-19 within days of each other. the safest space available for the family to hold the funeral
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was in a parking lot. now, sarah sidner is an experienced, solid reporter, but everyone's got an emotional limit. that live shot was hers. >> you know, this is the tenth hospital that i have been -- i'm sorry. this is ten -- i apologize. i'm going to try to get through this. this is the tenth hospital that i have been in, and to see the way that these families have to live after this and the heartache that goes so far and so wide -- it's really hard to take. i'm sorry allison. >> sarah, no apology needed. >> seeing this reminded me of something the author and researcher brene brown writes
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about. she calls it the 20-ton shield. it's a form am perfectionism, keeping our cool by preventing things from overwhelming that. i saw that video in a tweet and it pulverized by 20-ton shield. here's the thing -- i never felt like i was wearing one. i felt like i was all right. 2020 was rough, but i got a new job in a new city, i met a guy, my family back home is okay, and none of that kept me from turning into a teary-eyed senate ball when i saw that video. i lost it completely. i knew i had been avoiding that catharsis for a long time. i had confused contentment withal cooness to spare myself from feeling scared or weak. but journalists are not the only ones feeling this. i suspect many of the people who
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attacked the capitol are trying to look tough. i bet most of them are terriied of america's future, a future they don't recognize and a nation they fear has no place for them anymore. that's no fear, but it might help explain things. regardless, they're not the only ones trying to put on a brave face. many of us are beating back fears of a future, too, and i mean fear, not anger. you can be mad as hell and carry that 20-ton shield. sometimes the anger is the shield. i'm not a therapist, so feel free to completely ignore my advice, but trust me -- a 20-pound shield is more than enough. it will get you through is day and -- here's the best part -- it's much easier to put down. for me, that began with accepting the pain that i had filed away throughout 2020.
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what should i do about what's going on around me? i plan to start with what's going on within me. this may all sound bnoxiously touchy feely, especially for a news program, but i'll risk it if you need to hear this out loud. if you need to cry to 20 out of your system, it's okay. let it go. it's all right. put that play list of sad songs on a loop for a while. write a poem, draw a picture, call someone you trust. go exercise really hard, or find a good sturdy pillow to scream into the beat the hell out of. whatever it takes, it's okay. howard beal is from "network" is a fabulous character, but his advice might be out of date. he wants you to say, i'm mad as
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hell and i'm not going the take it anymore. but after the year we have been through, many of us need to say, i'm as sad as hell and i'm not going to fake this anymore. with that said, we would love to hear from you. what are you doing to let 2020 go? tell us your story. write us an email, the week @. >> announcer:.com or tweet us a 30-second video. 100 words or 30 seconds of video max. we'll share some of your stories tomorrow. finally, here are some resources in case you need help. the affordable care act requires most insurance plans to cover mental health. that might be a good place for you to start. you'll find a federal data base of treatment options online at mentalhealth.gov. there's a data base of resources for substance abuse at
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findfreemt.gov. or call 800-662-help. you can also contact the national suicide prevention lifeline at 800-273-talk. the website has online chat, tips for helping others and a link to a local crisis center. finally, social networks have info on flagging concerning posts from others or getting help for yourself. here's a list of some of their support pages. just search mental health for details. thank you for sharing stories. follow us on twitter. remember, up next is the special presentation of the the documentary "the way i see it". we'll see you tomorrow at 8:00 p.m. eastern. but until we meet again, i'm joshua johnson in washington. thanks for making time for us. good night. sleep number setting.
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